[00:00:00] Welcome back, coaches. This is the Football Coaching Podcast. I am Daniel Chamberlain, co-host. Here with Joe Daniel, as always. What's up, coach? Dude, it's been a while. It's been a minute. Yeah. Yeah. So listen, we've been podcasting together for five years? Yep. Yes, since 2021. This was the first AT that rendered me useless to the podcast.

You guys know I'm in... Most of you guys, I assume everyone. I'm in the Army National Guard in Oklahoma, and every summer we have to do our two weeks, and up until now, I have always been able to, like, break away. We have- Yeah ... face paint podcast. We have- We had face paint podcast, yep. I think it might've been before the YouTubes.

Yeah. But yeah. We did something with it. Yeah, but there's always been a cha- This was, like, out in the boonies, one bar of service. If you got lucky, you'd ping some texts. It was pretty, pretty crazy. Yeah. It was just close enough to home, I was driving home, but not every night, some nights. And even then it was like, get home late enough, we just can't record, so.[00:01:00]

Missed you guys. It's been, It was a good one. I'm glad to be back though. Glad to get back on a regular schedule. I need it mentally. I need a regular schedule, so it's gonna be good

Yeah, I've been all over, so I'm... I- Everybody's traveling too. Summer hit everybody up here in Oklahoma ... Yeah, it, we, we spent a week a few weeks ago in Bethany Beach and that was kind of like our beach week, 4th of July and then the week after. Came back, had, like, one qua- semi-normal week, four normal days.

Got back Sunday, had, Saturday or Sunday, had four normal days. Flew to Boston for a friend's for basically a reunion of, of a friend and or high school friends, and was in New Haven, I think. New Haven? No, New Bedford. New Bedford, sorry. New Bedford, the whaling capital. [00:02:00] And was there, supposed to just be there for, like, 36 hours.

We were joking about how short my trip was going to be, and then we hit all the East Coast weather stuff, flights canceled. I ended up driving home. It was a mess. Got home, didn't get home till Tuesday. Got home and immediately Wednesday had to turn around and go back to Bethany for another wife's family thing.

And we were s- we were contemplating staying till Sunday and I was like, "Listen, I love everybody. I've been home for four days in July. I just, I just want..." And I got, and I knew Monday, 'cause Monday night we did our coaches that we had to reschedule because I was, you know, traveling- Yeah ... and driving, gone.

Same, same thing happened with the podcast be- both of us weren't able to do it last week. And I had, I knew I had to come back and get ready for the Coach's Edge workshop for July where we put together the install schedule because we had rescheduled it for Monday night, and I was like, "I need a day to just, like, get ready," 'cause we had the [00:03:00] Chalk Talk Q&A call for our members.

We had our Coach's Edge workshop for our members, which we'll talk a little about in this episode, because this episode feeds right into our Coach's Edge for Aug- or no, yeah, this, this episode feeds right into our August Coach's Edge. So, we'll talk a little about those Coach's Edge workshops as well as we go on.

Awesome. I wanna get to our Power Minute real quick here. Tonight we are talking about depth charts and substitutions. This is kind of a someone had hit us up on the JDFB chalkboard, and then some YouTube comments about the same things. We thought it was a good time to slide one of these in. One, it's, it's one of those things we easily we, we miss, we forge- because it, it s- kind of comes naturally once you've done it a time or two, and you forget that, like, this is a part of football, right?

Is how do I pick who's out there and how do I substitute, et cetera. So, really cool to see that come through from the, you know, the listeners to, to, "Hey, what, how do you do this?" So we're gonna talk about tonight using ASCO to evaluate your talent. And we're gonna talk about finding the best player for each position on the field, and then convincing [00:04:00] players to play a new position, which we have both been through.

I've, I've been, I feel like every single year there's the kid that thinks he's a tight end, but he needs to play tackle, or- Yep ... you know. Or, or he is a defensive tackle, but you actually need him to play linebacker. Yeah. And I know that sounds chaotic, but we'll get into that one later. For my year one, that's how it went.

So sometimes you gotta just convince the kids, or maybe your coach too to let a kid play a new position. Kid, coach, parents. Yeah, yeah. Parents a lot. For sure. Oh, parents, for sure. Last week we talked about how to defend the Wing T offense. That'd be the last episode you can hear, and next week we're on to group run drill periods.

So how you're developing those group run drill periods. All right it is officially the end of July, Joe. As we record this, I know this comes out in a couple days Oklahoma this year, we start practice August 3rd. I know you've talked about before, your area tries to go before August 1st sometimes.

So- I think they are this year, yeah. So we've kinda hit it. The waiting's over. Yep ... pretty soon it's gonna be that first whistle, the ball's ready for, for play and the [00:05:00] kickoff happens. It's kinda time to- Yeah, talked to a coach in Georgia today who's seven days in already. Why Georgia starts earlier, I have no idea.

That's crazy. Pretty soon you figure out what kind of football team you've got, so, if you know another coach that's kinda starting that journey this week, especially those first few year coaches or somebody taking over a new program I'm sure most of the work is in by this point. But share the podcast.

Send them this episode. You know, this is kind of one of those things you don't think about. You got your install plan. You've got your starting plan, maybe your best 11. Rarely do you have, like, how are we rotating packages, how are we sending in the subs, et cetera. So, shoot them this episode. Let's pay the bills, Joe, and we'll get started.

Yeah, as I mentioned you can find this podcast at JoeDanielfootball.com/depth. We're gonna add in some resources and other things if you wanna go further with the depth chart. You can go d- to JoeDanielfootball.com/depth and get all that. There'll also be the YouTube video if you're listening on the audio.

The audio will be available there. The transcript a lot of resources as well there. So if you wanna go deeper on this, [00:06:00] deeper on the depth, go to JoeDanielfootball.com/depth. This is gonna be the topic for our August Coaches Edge workshop. And, and back in June we started the Coaches Edge workshops focusing on the things that JDFB coaches need to be working on right now.

And so, you know, right now you don't necessarily need to be working on your playbook. Hopefully some of you are getting a playbook, but you know, most of us have the playbook ready. You know, in June we put together the install plan. We try to stay a little bit ahead of the game as much as we can.

In June we put together the install plan. In July we put together the practice plans for that install on our Coaches Edge workshop, as I mentioned we did on Monday. And we'll be putting together the depth chart. And so some of the things we'll talk about in here, we're gonna actually have the tools, the depth chart, the templates.

We always try to have something that you walk away with, you know, filled out templates, depth charts, whatever it may be. That'll be on August 10th. If you're listening to this before August 10th, you can join JDFP Premium [00:07:00] Coaching Systems, and you'll get access to the Coaches Edge workshops, and I'll send out the information for that.

We've also added a new membership tier for coaches who maybe you don't need the system, you don't need the the drills, all of that, but you wanna get access to the Coach Simple philosophy and being able to implement that through the Coaches Edge workshop. So we've put together the Coaches Edge membership tier where you'll get access to those workshops.

It's $19 a month as of this recording, and you can get it at joedanielfootball.com/edge to check that out as well, E-D-G-E to get that membership. So $19 a month if you wanna be a part of the Coaches Edge workshops, put together those resources, but you're not running our systems. These are all system agnostic, so you can get it at joedanielfootball.com/edge for $19 a month.

Check that out. Love it. Just real quick, guys, remind you about Athletic Speed and Movement. If you haven't found your sp- speed training tool yet this year, if you haven't heard, maybe you're a first time listener to the podcast, Athletic Speed Movement is the thing for you. You're talking two times a [00:08:00] week, talking 20 ish minutes a day.

We have an in-season version. So the, the, the off-season, the summer, it, that's a little different 'cause you've got a little more time. We understand in season- ... you're trying to get into running power, trying to run into, run into Y cross. You've got things to get in, but you can't not work speed. Jump over to athleticspeedmovement.com today.

Get signed up and, and understand this is the thing that's gonna help put you over the edge. Okay? So athleticspeedmovement.com. So jumping to part one here, Joe. So first of all, we are talking about depth chart and how we organize that, and how do you determine who goes in where. As an O-line guy, and I know you're O-line as well, and I've, I've probably an O-line guy, because you are we always have that question of like, if the center goes down, well, who's the next guy that can snap?

It's probably your blind side tackle and he's the guy that has to start doing it and now you're putting some crazy freshman in there. Well, you can't do that and so now you're doing this crazy musical chairs of revolving [00:09:00] depth chart. But you know, after you've done this a few years, I feel like you get an understanding of what is the best 11, who really goes in as the backup.

A lot of guys are getting a piece of this with special teams 'cause on kickoff, like, you know, one guy often backs up five dudes because- Yeah ... it's just the next cat that can run down there, squeeze an alley and make a tackle. So, you know, you get pieces of this everywhere. But we have to have a way to evaluate and, and to kind of initiate who's gonna be on the depth chart in the first place.

So walk us through how we're using ASCA to kind of evaluate that talent and, and build out our depth chart to start. So when you're looking at what who needs to be in a position, you know, we i- in every single JDFB premium coaching systems system in module one of each of those, and by the way, module one is included in that Coach's Edge membership JoeDanielfootball.com/edge.

We describe the position and what the ideal characteristics are, and obviously [00:10:00] none of us have the ideal 11 guys. Not even close. But, like, if I had to give you a you know, a prototypical, like who's the perfect guy for this, it's like, you know, who's the perfect guy for the strong side defensive end in the 4-2-5?

Well, he's gotta be able to fight a reach block, squeeze a down block. He's our second best defensive lineman. He's a little more athletic. We'd love for him to be a little taller. We'd love for him to be like a 6'0", 220, you know, you know, 240, something like that, who can, you know, handle a tight end, who can also defeat a reach block from a bigger tackle, so he can't be too small when they don't have a tight end in the game, that kind of stuff.

You know, that's the ideal. So then you start to look at, okay, you know, what do we really need out of that position? Well, don't just ... you know, you don't just take the guy who's 6'2", 220 and put him there and say, "That's it. Job done," 'cause guess what? We'd also like a 6'2", 220 Mike linebacker, right? We'd love to have that all [00:11:00] over the field.

But so we start to look at what are the things that we really need. You know, if you don't see a lot of passing, then who cares how tall he is because he's not gonna be knocking down, you know, hitch, hitch routes and stuff. So, you know, is, i- is he strong enough to hold the point? Is he physical enough to not get driven out?

Is he athletic enough, disciplined enough to fight a reach block? Is he going to squeeze a down block, which is the non-negotiable for all of our defensive linemen? We want it to be a little quicker. And what I started looking at with this is as you start to look at what skills they need, ASCA is a really good tool to look at that.

We can look at things like where they're gonna be standing. Okay, if they're standing farther off the ball, they don't need to be as big. Obviously, those are things that help with alignment. Stance, not so much. But as we start to look at the key reads and the reactions and the assignments that they're go- they're going to have in our ASCA, that's the, that's what this player needs [00:12:00] to do.

And so you can look within your defense or within your offense, and you can look at their ASCA, their alignment stance, key read, their, their an assignment on defense, their alignment stance, keys and communication and assignment on offense. You know, what does the ideal defensive end look like? What does the ideal center look like?

And the first thing that I wanna do is I wanna kind of build almost like a, like, a, a, a, a, a matri- a rubric for, like, this guy. A, a, you know, a matrix of, like, what does the perfect guy look like? And, you know, a really easy way to do this, I don't play it. I mean, I, I didn't even play college football NCAA, whatever it's called now.

College football, 20... I didn't play '26. I played '25, looking at '27. But just look at those ratings. Like, if you wanna, like, okay, here's the, here's the things that I would look at is, like, okay... And you don't have to, you know, this... I wouldn't do all of them or anything, but it's like, okay, strength speed, [00:13:00] agility intelligence.

Maybe not intelligence, but, like, awareness, football awareness, football, you know. And I would probably look at, like, four things for, in a position that matter. And, and I don't know all the, all the ratings there, but when I look at it, I look at basically, like, And putting this together, like, honestly, I've never had to do this, but I've been asked about it so many times, I started looking at what, what will we put together?

Because what everybody wants is, like you said, Daniel, it's kind of- you know, instinctive of like, okay, this guy should go here and this guy should go there. But you do have to make those decisions and make your case and maybe have a little backup for why this kid's starting and that one's not. Not that you would go to him and say, "Well, he's a..."

You know, that's why I don't want to say intelligence. "Well, he's a two intelligence and I need a four intelligence." Right ... you know, we don't necessarily want to say [00:14:00] that. But if in your discussions in your staff meeting, if we can have something a little concrete to hold onto, it can really help us look at it.

And so what I want to kind of build is that ideal you know, if you had, let's say that you have five categories. If you have strength, agility, speed int- intelligence and You know, depends on the position somewhat 'cause, like, if you're looking at quarterback, you're looking at throwing, throwing s- you know, arm strength you know, whatever it is, catching ability for, for a receiver ball handling for a running back, those kinds of things.

Every position is different. You don't care about it whether or not your tackle can catch. You do care about whether or not your running back can catch out of the backfield, that kind of stuff. You know, your offensive linemen really need to be able to communicate, they need to be able to, to, to see what's happening, intelligence matters a little more.

Take those, like, four or five categories and if you just think about them on a, on a chart, right, and put the four or five categories across the bottom [00:15:00] and, and give each one of them a, a one through five. Ideal, okay? And so every position is gonna have this kind of, like, wave or structure to that, where the points are if you connect the dots.

And then you start looking at the players and just pop in a one through five. Don't, don't... It's not official. This isn't official. It's not like you're doing 99s and stuff like that. It's just a one through five. And then you start to look at, like, who fits that position. That's a really easy way and look, you don't have to do it for every position.

If you've got a kid that can sling it, and he's been a quarterback since he was five, and he's All-State last year, he's the quarterback. You don't need a metric. That's the natural stuff. You got nine offensive linemen. One of them is super smart and can snap, and he's- Center. Let's go ... he's the center. He's the center.

He's only 5'8", but he's super smart, he'll play [00:16:00] dirty, he'll figure it out. He's the center Okay? Let's just, let's just end it right there. Discussion over. I don't need to talk about this. Who the next center is maybe is something we need to talk about, but, you know, that's, that's where we start to look at these positions and just go, "Can he do the things that are required for that position?"

The center, alignment stance, key re- keys communication assignment. Okay, what are the things he has to do? Communicate. That's massive for him. He has to be able to snap. That's his assignment number one. Number two, he has to be able to down block in our system. He has to do a ton of down blocking. He will almost always be in a combo, and rarely will we ever force him to be in a one-on-one situation.

His pass pro is important, but you know, he can't get run over, but we are always gonna try to help the center. So in zone and in pass, we're gonna try to help the center as much as possible. But when he has to down block, he has to be a quick, fierce down blocker. So we don't want a kid who's super slow.

We want a [00:17:00] kid who's quick. We want a kid who's gonna be, who's gonna go do it. He can't come off the field. And so we start to put that together. And we'll talk later about, you know, when you start to consider everything else. But we come up with the ideal for that position, and then we start to plug in the closest to the ideal.

That's step one. Now step two is at the high school level, the youth level, you've got one kid who's the closest to the ideal for five positions. And so then you look at a couple of other factors. So now you start to look at which position is the most important for your team. In a lot of offenses, the H-back is just, like, kinda there.

In our offense, he's extremely important blocker, pass catcher, occasional ball handler. [00:18:00] So the H-back has a much higher importance, and if you don't use an H-back and you're spread out, then that, that position becomes a, you know, a slot receiver or whatever. He has completely different skillsets needed.

In your best 11, you know, he, you probably can make that slot receiver your 11th guy and it's okay, it's not a big deal. So you've gotta look at with y- within your scheme, within your system, each position, what really matters within the position, and then as you start to look at your guys, it's almost like a draft.

Okay? Most important position, this guy goes here. Next guy goes here. Next guy goes here. And you'll have to shuffle a little bit, but at the end of the day, you should not have anyone on the field that you feel uncomfortable about with the exception of, you know, a corner versus a defensive tackle. Okay?

With, with y- if you would [00:19:00] feel uncomfortable with your defense- your, you should never have in the best 11 philosophy, and we did a podcast a few seasons ago about in the best 11. I can't remember when it was. I think that was my first year. Okay. That might have been my, like, second episode. Okay. Best 11 was a minute ago.

Yeah, we did best 11 a while ago. It'll probably be some- it'll probably show up somewhere. But- You should never have... Let's, let's take safeties, linebackers. Let's just take, let's go safeties, linebackers, and corners, okay? If you have a guy on the field at corner that you feel really uncomfortable about, but you have a guy next to you, standing next to you on the sidelines who you feel super comfortable about playing safety They're not that, look guys, we're not in the NFL.

He's not a safety or a corner. He's a DB. [00:20:00] He's a player He might just be a, a guy, right? Like, that guy, that backup safety may be the guy for corner, safety, linebacker, or weak side defensive end. Okay? He could be any of those. And he's just... He... And maybe he stays on the sidelines. If you're comfortable with your 11, he stays on the sidelines and he's the next guy.

We'll get into that, but so that's what I'm thinking. That's, that's the first thing is, like, just kind of give them, like, a rating. Give a, give a general rating of the position. Five, five characteristics. I would not go past five. Five characteristics for the position. You got your group of guys that you're thinking, "I wonder which position they can play."

Give them the rating, see if they fit in there, and see how close you can get with it. And be, you know, don't be silly about it. When you're doing this, I say the ideal, I guess what I should really say is, you know, the, the [00:21:00] average. Like, what's an average defensive end for you? If a guy fits it better, great.

If he's completely off the charts the wrong direction, like, if you're like, "Okay, strength is a thing," and you're looking at this guy and he's, like, never been to your weight room, probably not the guy, right? Right. Probably not the guy. Find somebody else. So you can use that to just give you a little bit of guidelines for it.

Don't go super overboard with it. I know somebody will go super overboard with, like, every position ran- you know, like, all this stuff, fitting, slotting guys in, but Put guys in the obvious positions. Start there. Quarterback that's been the quarterback forever. The offensive lineman who's already got an offer in his sophomore year, he's still an offensive lineman.

Like, start with the obvious and then start to plug the next of your best 11 in. I I love that you went College Football 27 rating or Madden rating or how, you know, all of you guys [00:22:00] play something different. But I feel like a lot of us have gravitated to the college football world. But it, it, it kinda brings in, I think they call them traits, like, or mental and physical traits or whatever, doesn't matter.

You know, it's these things that supersede the numbers almost, right? Like I am a great ball carrier and I can see the hole, but by God, if I get this shifty perk, all of a sudden, like, I can really shake people out of their shoes. But we see this in kids all the time in football where it's like these kids are kind of the same.

They bench about the same. They squat about the same. They run just about the same. And then you put the pads on and one of them can't run to save his life with a football in his hand with pads on, and the other one just has this natural fluidity on the football field, right? One of my favorite kids I've ever coached was at Owasso on the freshman team.

Now understand we're surrounded by D1 and future D1 [00:23:00] athletes. This kid was neither of those, but he had that gamer mentality. Like- Yeah ... he may not impress you in practice. He may not be able to regurgitate the playbook, but by God, when he snaps the, when the ball is snapped and he's playing safety He somehow wrecks running backs in the backfield and swats down deep throws to the, you know, seven, eight and nine hole.

Like, I don't... H- I didn't teach you that. Where'd you get that? Well, the ball was snapped, coach. Find the ball. I've recently started coaching first graders, and it's kind of the same thing. Like, you don't get to put a defensive end and a defensive tackle and a linebacker. No. Can you run with any speed and see the football?

Congratulations, you're a DB. And if not, you're on the D line and I'm gonna teach you to squeeze like crazy and attack the football as soon as you can see it, right? Like, it's, it's- Right ... depending on where you're at in your program, these [00:24:00] numbers and traits and things you're expecting of players may change.

But I r- when, when you brought up college football, I was like, man, I will ever remember that kid. He was just an absolute gamer. I couldn't... You can't put it on paper, but by God, you can find it on tape. So remember that, like, as you're trying to figure out who your best 11 are. There are some kids that are twins, except when the ball is snapped, some of them just sniff out the football, and some are really worried about that key read you gave them, because I better not...

I'm, I'm that guy. I'm super analytical. I've gotta do exactly what the book said sometimes and I can't just free flow. So, Yeah ... absolutely be sure you're looking at that. I always get concerned when coaches tell me "We're running cover three and we're not going to flip because the guys are the same."

Because I've coached for about 25 years, and I have yet to coach the same guys. Yeah. I remember years [00:25:00] ago, this is actually the first year that we installed the three four, and I had two kids that were very good, solid JV linebackers. But they were both about five six, one 40. They were the same in, in every way.

Baseball players, tough kids, you know, great kids. Size-wise, tough JV linebackers. Came up to varsity and, you know, they could not obviously play i- in an inside linebacker position when we've got a 240 pound... You know, at that time we still had people running iso with a 240 pound fullback. It's like, you know, can't do that.

When, you know, when things came to it, one of them fit in, in a safety position better. One of them fit in a strong side position better. One of them fit in a weak side position better. One of them was a better tackler. One of them ended up being the guy that was [00:26:00] there for his own read options on the, on our stud front.

He was the, the guy standing there tackling the quarterback but didn't play as well in coverage, didn't tackle as well. Both were good tacklers. Like, they were mirror guys, but I can tell you right now that I would give one of them a, you know, one of them a three and one of them a four in, like, tackling.

And obviously in your defensive positions you look at, like... You know, it, it's, you, you mention, like, you know, I was talking about Madden traits, like, you know, strength, intelligence, that kind of stuff. But the reality is when we're rating these guys, we need to be looking at can he tackle in space? So if I'm looking at a strong safety, it's tackle in space.

Coverage ability. And when I'm looking at strong safety, coverage ability is not nearly as important as maybe weak safety, because I can help with the free safety over there. It's not as important as corner. But the corner, it doesn't matter if he can tackle in space that much. It's nice to have, but it's not a necessary.

With a, with a Mike linebacker, with a linebacker position let's say, like you said, what are the things that he'll do? If I'm looking at a [00:27:00] free safety, his number one job is to fill the alley. So which one of these kids plays downhill? Not the one who played the best in seven-on-seven. Which one of them plays downhill?

He's the one who's going to get the job. So that's, I, I think is a good thought is that's what we're looking for is what in that position has to be done. Now initially if you don't know, you may be looking at, you know, this guy's stronger, this guy's faster. If you've got two guys that play downhill, then which one's stronger, which one's faster, which one's better in coverage, which one's better communicator, which one's gonna be better manager, general on the field?

You know, I can take, if I got two guys that play downhill really well in a four- in a 4-2 system, then I will take the one that's the best, best athlete, best downhill best leadership ability. He'll be at the free, and maybe best tackling, right? And y- there's, there's always little differences there, [00:28:00] and then the other one becomes the weak safety probably.

Especially if I'm too high, he becomes the weak safety if I'm doing split field coverage. So that's where you just sort of look at really, you know, hon- honestly a lot of times what happens is you've got, you've got a handful of positions that are ... And you've got to do this. You've got to look through and say, "Look, okay, three technique on the defensive line, best defensive lineman.

Next best defensive lineman, defensive end." Okay? So whoever doesn't get the three technique He's not necessarily nose unless he's just big. If he's, if he's too slow, then maybe he's your nose. But if he's athletic, he's your end. If, you know, it goes without saying your best linebacker is the Mike, but what if your best linebacker, I have this discussion with coaches all the time, what if your best linebacker guy is your best player?

And this'll flow into the third part later. What if your best linebacker is your best player? And we talk a lot about best player being your free safety. There's nothing wrong with having a linebacker at 10 yards coming downhill [00:29:00] and filling that alley. Amen. But then there's other things that come into that, that factor into that.

But obviously the guy who's competing for the Mike, I've got three guys that I'm looking at for Mike backer, and they're all better than my fourth offensive line- or fourth defensive lineman. They're all better than my third safety. One of them's gonna be Mike, one of them's gonna be

Defensive line, linebacker? Like Will, is Will more important than fourth defensive lineman? Is Will more important than weak safety? I would argue it depends on your schedule. You know, you gotta start to look at those things. But I would argue the weak safety's gonna be very important for you if you're in a, if you're in one of our s- 4-4 or 4-2-5, whatever or 3-3 stack, you know, systems.

It, it's definitely gonna be Yeah. We've already kind of bled over to the second piece here. The second part of the- Mm ... we're talking about finding the best player for each position. But I would I'm kind of with what you just started to say. [00:30:00] It really, as you're looking for the best kids to put on the field, like best 11 is, is I think hands down where you gotta start.

Yep. Now, you might be in a situation where 10 through 15 are very similar, and you've gotta find that next thing. What's my, my big- Yeah ... how am I gonna determine which of these 11 go on the field? And I think you have to start with what does your scheme require of them, right? What, mentally, where are you at in football for your offense or your defense?

If you are, if you're gonna come out and play the wing T or a double wing or ... I mean, obviously we need a lot of kids that can block, so having seven absolute athletes on the field doesn't make a lot of sense. If they can't block anybody, they can all run go routes, maybe you should really consider what your scheme's actually trying to do.

But I get it, some guys just, "We run my way because that's what we do here," right? And we've, we've seen those coaches for years. But what is your scheme requiring and how does that [00:31:00] let you put those pieces together? Defensively, I always think about seven, eight, and nine-man spacing, and I know it's this very complex, almost convoluted idea of, "Coach, what the hell are you talking about?"

Because I, I, we're a cover three team and a cover one. Where does seven, eight, and nine come from? I'm not running cover seven. Well, that's not what we're talking about. How many guys are basically standing at the line of scrimmage ready to play the run, right? That's, that's kinda where that comes from. But that differs.

Like you just said, Joe, free safety in a, in a standard 4-2, cover three look, a one high look, that dude's gotta be able to get sideline to sideline and bring the heat when he gets there. He can't be scared to, to squeeze a gap and, and make a tackle. Where if you're... And, and, and that's kind of that eight and nine-man spacing look.

If you're more seven, where it's you're kind of dependent on those first six and then an extra safety rolling down you know, then that guy's gotta be able to run free in the middle of the field. So what does your scheme [00:32:00] require each of those positions to truly do? And then, then I think the second thing, and this is where you really were headed to a minute ago, is what does your season look like this year?

Yep. Same thing. Like I, I can get the best 11 that play smash mouth, 4-2-5 defense. We're in a cover or we're in a single high. I've got eight guys and really a ninth that I want seven yards from the line of scrimmage, and they're hitting people in the mouth. That's great until an air raid comes to town, and all of a sudden they're spreading my outside linebackers/safeties.

They're spreading them out to the top or bottom of the numbers, and the ball's in the middle of the field, right? And it's like, "Okay, now what are we doing to play ball?" So you've gotta have the kid that can Get to a passing route. He's gotta have that ability to, to flip his hips and drop and, and at least get under a guy and make the, the po- or the hole a little smaller.

But he's also gotta be able to get downhill and hit outside zone or inside zone or [00:33:00] whatever version of ... Now a quarterback run's so popular at this, you know, right now, he's gotta go take on a lead block by generally a smaller kid when a, a running back's trying to come out and, and pretend he's a lineman.

Like, we have a little advantage, but I still have to have that mentality and the ability to cover that ground. So you, as you're looking for the best player for each position, obviously your scheme matters in, in what your front's supposed to look like. Are you an odd front? Are you an even front? What kind of

Joe, you and I both say all the time the best defensive end is often a backup safety, right? Like, it's the kid that you just roll out- We said, yeah. For sure ... because he barely got beat out, but now he can, you know, get around an offensive tackle and make him look stupid. But that's a little different when it is a double wing team we're playing, or it is a wing T, or it is a, a, a pistol power offense where they're just trying to down block you and get downhill.

Well, maybe that kid's not actually quite as useful. He may not actually be the best defensive end now because of what the opponent makes. So I think you gotta ask yourself those two questions before you start trying to fit [00:34:00] anybody into the best position. Having a missile inside linebacker that just always cleans things up, that

It doesn't take a lot of scheme, right? Give him, give him a key read, let him go. Yep. But there's a lot of other positions that do depend on what you're asking them to do. Yeah, and I, I think there's a lot to consider within your scheme, but then there's, there's a lot to consider beyond the starting 11.

And just here's our... this is where we start. This is where I would definitely start is best, best 11, best 11 guys for the job. But then we know, and I know, we, we both know, but I know from th- talking to now hundreds and maybe a thousand or more coaches directly that have joined JDFB in conversation with our chalk talk, with our coach calls that we do for new members, and we also started implementing some for older members as well.

And, Most of us are playing guys both ways, and so [00:35:00] then the considerations start to come in fatigue. He may be your best offensive lineman and your best defensive lineman, or he may be your fourth best defensive lineman and your fifth best offensive lineman, but if he's playing 120 snaps There's probably a sixth offensive lineman or a fifth defensive lineman who's going to be better than him pretty quickly.

So we have to consider things like fatigue. We have to consider what they can handle physically what they can handle mentally. We- I, I've talked ... Recently I was talking to a friend of mine about, I remember, and this happens in every little town that there is, but I remember my, my roommate in college, we went to go see his little brother play.

It was like fall break and I, it's too far for me to go home for an extra day off or whatever fall break was, two days. So I went home with him, and we went to see his little brother play on a Friday night. And I think we didn't have a game or maybe [00:36:00] we had a game and had to be back Saturday. I don't know.

And his little brother was the best player on the team. It's very small Virginia school. Or there were two of- there were two kids that were the best players on the team, but he was the quarterback and he was also the linebacker and he was also the punter. And i- you know, there were, you know, whatever, 20 kids on the team and they'd turn the ball, you know, the, the ball be turned over on downs or he'd punt the ball and then he stands into the middle of the field and, you know, eight or nine new guys come on.

But he just stands and waits for them to get there 'cause he's the best player on the field. He's not coming off at that level, but he can handle that. He was the best player probably physically and mentally on the field. He could handle that. So you, you have to consider what everybody can handle.

Right. I can't tell you don't play your quarterback at Mike linebacker 'cause if, if your quarterback is actually your best Mike linebacker and he's [00:37:00] actually your best quarterback and that goes for the first quarter and the fourth quarter, you know, obviously you're taking a risk for a long season, but maybe that's the thing.

Just try to protect him when you can. Try to protect him at quarterback. Don't get him hit. I mean, don't run him much. You know, that kind of thing is like you gotta know the situation. But usually if he's, you know, your center, I wanna limit what he does on defense. And so we start to look at when we talked about the best 11 and talked about who these guys are going to be, talked about dropping that safety down.

You've gotta start to consider the depth. If I take that fourth safety and make him my weak side end, who's my fourth safety now? If I have an injury, am I now going to have my fourth best safety on the field and also bring ... You know, am I gonna move him back and say, "Well, now I got my fourth best safety on the field and I got my fifth best defensive lineman on the field," or do I wanna keep my fourth best defensive lineman on the field and bring a fifth best safety in?

[00:38:00] You know, because in, you know, in one case, just theoretically, if we have three safeties on the field normally on a depth chart as starters, and we have four defensive linemen on the depth chart as starters, in one case, we leave the defensive lineman there, we bring on the fifth safety, we're down a little bit at safety.

Whereas if we bring the guy back to safety and we- we're down, it's like having two injuries, right? Right. We're now two spots on the field that are injured. Just thought process. So as we start to look through this, we start to look at what the reality is. Who's going to fill in at the next position if I move this guy?

We... I, I've talked before about our Swiss Army knife, and Nick, listen to the podcast. I hope you're listening. Because, because he wants to be a coach. That's the guy that always wants to be. Played every single position on the field. I don't know if he ever played center, but he played every other offensive line position.

He played right guard at 165 pounds. He played defensive end. He also played linebacker. He was primarily a strong safety on defense until somebody got hurt, and then it was like, "Well, gotta go to all these other positions." He was [00:39:00] a receiver. He was a tight end. He was an H-back. He probably played running back.

He played every position that there was on the field except maybe quarterback, and probably did that on scout team, okay? And if you have that guy, you're like, "What do I do?" Because I know, like, I know I can count him in to, count on him to fill in anywhere needed. So if he's starting somewhere, I, you know, I, I almost don't wanna have him as a starter because, like, I know he's gonna have to go in.

Now I'm gonna get him in the game, but, like, I don't know what, you know, where do... But I know that I've got him available. So as you start to plug all these things in, it's like, don't... The worst thing you can do is have your best 11 on the field and then go, "Somebody gets hurt, we're screwed." But also make sure that your kids know that the depth chart is not- [00:40:00] The, I, you know, I hesitate to post a depth chart because the kids see you know, my depth chart when I was in college.

We've, we're a 4-3, so there's a, there's a Sam, Mike, and Will on the depth chart. And so there's a Sam, Mike, and a Will. They're all really good. There's a backup Mike. He's pretty good. There's a backup Will. He's pretty good. And I'm the backup Sam. Now, I'm smart enough to know this, but your high school guys might not be.

I was the sixth linebacker, not the backup Sam. Okay? Right. That's how this works. If the Sam gets hurt, the Mike's going in at Sam. The backup Mike's going in at Sam. He's the fourth. And then if somebody else gets hurt, the fifth, who was the backup Will on the depth chart, goes in. The depth chart is not next man up, like the next guy goes.

The depth chart is I've got three linebackers and then I've got next guy, next guy, next guy. Okay? I'm gonna [00:41:00] let you talk for a minute. I'm gonna check on something. Okay. Be right back. Yep. I got a lot going on in my upstairs studio. Understand. So you know, I kinda love what you're talking about, the 11th, y- you gotta know kinda who can handle it or whatever.

You talk about Swiss Army knives because that's where... Like I remember when I was in high school, okay, first of all, I was ditzy. I had no idea what was going on on a football field. I was actually sitting here thinking, I wonder if I would've just had the brains to ask Coach Rid Coach Ridley, who's been on the show before.

You guys can go back and find that episode. But, hey, listen, I don't understand football at all. Can you go back to the bare bones? Like go back to the foundation and teach me ball. Maybe if my junior or senior year I might've been more of an asset. But as it was, Joe, to what, you know, kinda to your point there, I was a Swiss Army knife, so I could kinda go in at a few different positions.

Hell, I made my, my time in college, all I did was play defensive end and, and just try to make those big offensive tackles work their [00:42:00] speed, work their agility. But in high school it was like I was kinda, I had a, a purp- like, hey, we need to send a blitz off the edge. I was really fast off the edge. I didn't understand a damn thing that was going on on the field, but by God, there was no one g- I mean, in fact, I remember a playoff game, we ended up losing, but it was kind of a, "Daniel, get out there."

And then I- wax. Whoops. Here was the hand sign for... I still remember wax. I was the will in a 4-2-5, which to us was the outside weak safety. But that was my blitz call, and it was like, "Go get 'em." Like, "Yeah, here I come." And I, I wasn't even smart enough to like blitz from depth. It was I'm on the line, I'm doing the here I come thing, right?

Like I'm hopping on my foot like it's gonna make me faster because I was an idiot. But I got a strip sack in the middle of a playoff game, in the biggest game in Long Grove history or whatever. Once again, we lost. So but like that's, that's what I was. I not only was a, a Swiss Army knife, but I was almost even more of like a role player.

And it's okay to have those guys. When we get into the substitution part of [00:43:00] this, this podcast, when we... Your depth chart's very important, but we understand that sometimes it's just subbing a guy out to catch a breather. Is it- You mentioned it just now, Joe, my Sam is exhausted. But to pull him out and give him a breather, do I rotate all four linebackers and now I'm weak in three places, or do I just put in Joe and say, "Hey, go get three reps.

Don't make us look stupid," right? Like, read your key reads and don't try to be a hero, you're probably okay. So that's where the substitution side of the house comes in, where depth chart we often think a whole series or a permanent replacement, somebody's injured they just can't go. But hey, I gotta get a breather, I need one or two reps, I'm not switching my whole O-line over for a guy to get a breather because he's been Iron Manning it for three quarters, right?

I just need him out for two or three plays. The sixth or seventh or eighth offensive lineman can absolutely go in and, and make this work. Now as a play caller you may play calls that let him just be [00:44:00] the backside and, like, we're gonna run toss away from him so that he doesn't give up a- ... or a run through a- Yeah, play call, yeah

power or something. Right, your play calling can help here. Well how many times do we rotate receivers to give a guy a break and we just don't- Oh, 100% ... want him throwing the ball right now? Yeah, yeah, for sure, and you gotta do that in every position. I mean, it, it, you, you truly do. But I think as you get into substitutions that's where you can look at, like, it doesn't...

This is why depth charts are so weird to me because we don't, we have more packages than depth chart. We have a depth chart upstairs that you, the kids don't see it, the coaches see it, and it's usually like, "Oh shit, he just blew out his knee. Who's going in right now?" Who's going in while we figure out what to do.

What to do, right. Right. And that is on paper- And, and that's on paper because that's, you've gotta have a coach responsible for that. We talk about substitutions. There is a coach responsible for that. Now, in terms of defensive line rotation, and I'm a big fan of rotating defensive linemen, that's probably on the defensive line coach.[00:45:00]

For sure. And he's gotta rotate those guys, and he's gotta know scenario and situation, and it's like "Hey, you know, we've got eight guys that rotate on the defensive line, but the eighth guy better not be in there on a crucial third and three." Right. Like, kind of thing. Like, you know, like you said, one of the guys is a good pass rusher.

He goes in on pass downs. One of the guys is, you know, a, a, a plugger. He can't p- rush the passer, he can't chase a screen down, but he can plug a gap. He goes in there for that. So you have that depth chart, and you've gotta have somebody who understands the rotation. Y- and you always just make sure that the guys who rotate stay next to whoever's gonna rotate them in.

Yeah. That's kind of the critical thing We did you know, we were fortunate with our strong safety, weak safety. At one point, you know, w- when we were running a lot of cover one one year we had two kids that were basically linebackers, and then we had two kids that were, We had four safeties.

Two of them were really good run players, and two of them were more... [00:46:00] They could have been corners. Now, we had two corners. One of them got drafted in baseball. One of them had went to play at Army. So, you know, we had corners. Both of them weren't tacklers, by the way. If they could tackle, they would've been somewhere else.

Right ... but, but the other two, like, they were the backup corners, but those corners were never coming off the field. And you know, 'cause we were two platoon at that time. And so, you know, we had these four safeties. One of them was already down to defensive end, so we had four more left, and not including the free.

The free was the free. And so we would rotate them on third downs. We were, we, we were blessed with numbers in that situation, and we could say, "Yeah," we could look at the you know, as you go back to what we talked about in the assignment, if I can look at the assignment, what I had was I had a strong safety who was a freshman who was going to be a really good inside linebacker.

But as a freshman, he was just not ready. He should've been playing JV by his body [00:47:00] size, but by his ability he had no business on JV. He was a varsity football player as a freshman. But I couldn't put him in the box at Mike Backer, so he was playing strong safety. Okay? However, at the end of the day, he was a linebacker.

Glorified linebacker out there. So he could play a little cover one, and I could give support from the free safety to him, who was a really good free safety. But on a passing down, I was gonna get him off and get somebody who was better pass coverage on. And so when we look at that, going back to the beginning, and we look at that, the metrics of what we want, and we, we put that thing out there and we say, "Okay, who's got the mentality?

He's got the tackling ability. He's got the physicality. He's got no pass coverage, and he's got the intelli- you know, the intelligence." Okay. So I go, "He can't cover at that position the way that we need him to in a passing situation." But here's the kid who doesn't tackle quite as well, who [00:48:00] doesn't quite understand the position as well, who doesn't quite do this as well, doesn't quite do that as well, but his pass coverage is up here Put those two together, and I got a real good strong safety.

For sure. Bill Maljoy was, and if you haven't listened to the episode on quarterback drills, by the way, I've been doing the elbow warmup, and it has helped with the band that we went through. We went through the warmups, the drills, everything there, and it's really good. Bill was a-- You know, that H-back is so important in the offense, and Bill would talk about the ideal the ideal H-back, and it was-- I can't believe I'm blanking on his name right now, played for the Steelers and was, you know, a linebacker for the Steelers, and I'm just blanking on his name right now.

He's played for Mtaka. But an NFL player, right? Athletic. He could run. He could catch. He could block. He could throw. He could probably do everything on God's green earth that you would ever want a football player to have. Bill would say that's the ideal H-back. Like, well, that's the ideal football player.

But that's our ideal free safety too. The ideal [00:49:00] football player is the ideal H-back, and he's the ideal free safety, okay? That's, that's the ideal. And we would say, "Bill, if I don't have a guy who can block Do I just not run the passing, you know, play ac- he's big, big on play a- he, he's a, a major part of play action passing along with blocking. He can be involved in your run game, he can do other things. And Bill would say you just get your sixth offensive lineman, he plays tight end, so now your seventh one's playing H-back.

And then you get your fourth receiver and he's playing H-back, and you train them both to be H-backs and- Packages ... and, like, and guys will, guys you'll get so concerned about this. You're like, "They're gonna know." They're not gonna know. I mean, yeah, they're gonna know, but don't give them more credit than they need to have credit for.

Like, obviously I'm not going to, like, I can run the play action with the big guy in [00:50:00] there, and I can do a couple things. I can have him block and release to Y, but I can also release him for a pass and not throw it to him. Also, a lot of times your offensive linemen are more athletic than you give them credit for.

You can throw it to him. And I can run the run plays. Like you said, I can run guys call it split zone, I don't know why. But the H-back comes across and kicks out the backside guy. It's just zone, still zone blocking. H comes across and kicks out the backside guy. He might not get a great kick-out block.

That's okay, we're running right. It's fine. I can still run the ball with the other guy in the game. Like you said, I could run outside zone to the left. I can put the tight end over here and the H-back on the right, and I run an outside zone to the tight end side and j- I'm still running the ball with him in the game, so it's not a perfect giveaway.

But, you know, I, I cover up the weakness by using two guys. So yeah, I mean, that's ultimately the, the things to remember are, like, the depth chart is not the depth chart. And the starters are not the starters. The, it [00:51:00] doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be 11 guys go out and play 11, you know, play every snap.

Situational, where can you use guys? And in the depth chart, have a sixth lineman and like you said, figure out how you're gonna shuffle that. Have a sixth lineman and have a next center. And then, and, and one of the things that I wanted to talk about, and now, just now coming back to it, 'cause you were talking about you know, the guys specializing and stuff like that, goes back to the single wing and the problem with the single wing offense.

This is back in the 1940s, okay? The problem with the single wing offense was the single wing offense runs entirely through the quarterback. He's your lead ball carrier, and if he gets hurt, you have a problem. Now, the advantage of the single wing was you had a lot of misdirection, you had a lot going on, but you were dependent on that one guy The dead [00:52:00] T, straight T, it's not dead, wasn't dead in the 1940s, it's not dead now, but the straight T had three backs.

Now the quarterback wouldn't carry the ball, he would just distribute. But you had three backs who could carry the ball. If one of them got hurt, you put the fourth back in, but you still have two starters back there who know how to run the ball. Okay? Your offense doesn't fall apart with one injury. The problem was it's a little more straightforward, which is funny to say because you can do a lot of misdirection and, and ball handling with the straight T, but it didn't have all the misdirection of the, and advantages of the unbalanced single wing.

So the solution was the wing T, but which combined the principles. But the idea was, the problem was you had an offense completely built around that... One of the problems was you had an offense completely built around that one player, and if he got hurt you could be in a lot of trouble I love having a strong and a quick side in your offensive line.[00:53:00]

I love the concept. I love the idea. But everybody needs to know how to play all the positions because I can't have my quick side guard who's always the puller go down and be like, "Oh, God, I don't have anybody else who knows how to pull." Like, and I can't just have a backup quick side guard trained probably.

Like, I've got to... That quick side, that backup quick side guard better be able to go to the strong side guard and probably tackle and maybe center. I don't know. All of those things when you're... A- a- and I'll go to one more place. We mentioned, you know, the weak safety and the strong safety are not the same.

They're always different. But when you talk about running split-field coverage, the weak safety is a very different job from the strong safety. And so as you start to, the more complex your scheme gets, the more specialized different positions get. Talk about college and the NFL, 85 guys or 53 guys, [00:54:00] and they've got nickel backs and dime backs and guys that are specialized for these things.

We generally don't. I don't have a fifth DB just standing around who I'm gonna put out there at important situations usually, right? That's not a thing. So we don't, we don't have the specialization of the difference between a safety and a corner. I've probably just got a next defensive back in a lot of cases.

And you know, he goes in a corner or he goes in at safety or he goes in, he goes into any of those five positions sometimes. Like you said, I've got a next linebacker who might also be my next defensive end. He's, you know, he's gotta be all of them. The more specialized it gets, the harder it gets to sub them.

So like on the the, you know, the 33 stack or the three four, all three defensive linemen are essentially the same, right? Slant right, slant left. Now [00:55:00] want a better one on the strong side than the weak side or maybe a better one at the nose. But they're all, the skill is the same. So my fourth defensive lineman is my fourth defensive lineman.

My, when I have three linebackers in the four three defense, my Mike Backer is playing very different from my Will and my Sam. I probably actually need a backup Mike Backer or somebody who understands how to do it and pop somebody out. I can just, I can't just pop any one of the three in there in our Miami four three.

Apparently you could at Randolph-Macon College in 1998 and I know because I didn't get in a game. But but I didn't know what was going on anyways. That's probably why I didn't get in a game. But With, with the Miami 4-3, the Mike is different than the Will and is different than the Sam. The Sam removes from the box when there's no tight end.

The Will is on the weak side. The Mike is A gap strong, B gap weak. They have three different jobs. The defensive line is actually now all outside [00:56:00] shades and they can play on any of them, but the linebackers are more complicated. The two high safeties are not nearly the same as the corners. They gotta

They, now they all can read it. Maybe they can work in and out, but the guy that can force the run from 9 to 12 yards deep is a very different cat than the guy who is 7 by 2 playing corner and just staying over top of everything. More complex system. In the 4-2, generally they can all across the board play those defensive line positions.

You can move them around. They can flip back and forth between the Will and the Mike. It's no problem. And the strong safety, the weak safety, and the free safety all have the same key reads, even though the free safety is a different position. But as long as you're not split field coverage, if you're cover one or cover three, the strong safety and the weak safety are basically the same.

So you lose some of the fanciness. Maybe you lose some of the disguise. We talk about the 3-4. There's four different guys that have to be able to force and spill and alley and all that kind of stuff. Their, their responsibilities change. If I've got a Sam [00:57:00] backer in the f- in the 3-4 who sometimes is up on the line as a defensive end, who sometimes is off the ball as a overhang safety essentially, I can't just flip him with my strong safety because the strong safety has never been up on the ball.

If I do flip him, I gotta make sure I'm bringing the Will off the edge every single time because he's the one who knows how to do both. Right. So that's where you, you just ... The more moving parts there are, the more complex. If you just run inside zone and outside zone as your base plays, all of your offensive linemen have the exact same blocking rules.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's all the same across the board. No matter where they play. And the tight end, and if you got, you got the tight end, the tight end is the tight end. Now he just, he has to run some routes and stuff, but in your run game I can just get another lineman in there if my tight end gets hurt.

Switch his jersey real quick, throw him back out there. Okay? Just, you can ... The more specialized the position the more, you know, the more limited you are. Running back, I love to have multiple running backs. [00:58:00] But we usually have like an inside runner and an outside runner. And by the way, it is not by size.

It is who will stick it up in there and who can get around the edge. Right. And I've had- My best running back in years was, is, was a inside linebacker that just did not care about life. Yep. I had one of those. And and that's what he was good at. Like- But I also had a corner who was a fantastic inside zone runner, right?

He wouldn't... You would think he's the tall, sweet guy, and that's where we started. But then it's like, man, this kid hits, he sees a seam- He's a seam meat man ... he hits the inside zone. That's right. And he can, he can do that. So, you know, mirrored route concepts. You know, a lot of people don't like the mirrored route concepts, but my X and my Z are the same And by the way, my Z is an inside receiver when we go twil- twins formations, and so he can play inside receiver or outside receiver.

My X is the only one who's an outside receiver, is an outside receiver. Yeah. Like all of these things you are a- the more you are able to cross-train positions ... [00:59:00] 33 stack by the way. We talk about you need to cross-train your linebackers in the 33 stack because they're blitzing all of the time. So they need to know how to read a guard pull and adjust to it because when you blitz a guy he essentially becomes a defensive lineman, and that is extra work on the linebackers.

But I've now cross-trained all of my linebackers to be able to step in and be defensive linemen. Yeah. So it's like there's advantage and there's disadvantage of these things. So just think about, you know, as you put together depth charts how you can move guys around, how you can ... And one of the ... Oh, just one more, one, one last thing.

One last thing. One last thing. You okay? Umbrella. Once they understand spill force alley- I've done that many a time ... "Buddy, I need you to go stand here and you are force." Spill is spill. Force is force. If, if they understand just, if they just understand inside and outside fit, they can go to a position, and they may not know all the stuff, but I can throw him in there real quick and just say, "Hey, you're the [01:00:00] force now."

And he goes, "Okay, I know what that means." Yeah. I don't have to teach him everything. He understands the, the 10-minute run fit talk that we give. And umbrella, as long as you don't overcomplicate everything else, does open up to moving some of those guys. Now like I said, they're not all, it's not easy. I can't just jump a guy from spill to force to spill to force to spill to force and have him know how to do that, but if I need a guy to just stand out there and be, "You're the force now."

"Okay. I got it." And that adds another ... And then I can, I can run through his ASCO real quick. "I need you to go in right now at strong safety. Okay? Alignment stands key read assignment. You're gonna be five by five, your inside foot up. Key the quarterback ball up, ball down. If it's ball down, force. If it's ball up, run to the flats.

Go get him, kid." Is he gonna do it great? Absolutely not. Might you survive if you've got a three touchdown lead and it's the fourth quarter? Yeah. Yeah. Before, before we call it ... I, I know we're, man, guys, we just pushed over an hour, so appreciate you guys for listening. Actually we do this all the time, so I don't know why I'm saying I appreciate you.

I do appreciate you. Yeah, I didn't even get to [01:01:00] the, the position thing. But have some fun. That, that's the last piece. Joe, you, you mentioned a minute ago like it's okay to take that kid who actually could play tight end but he's on the O line. We did that this past year. We took a guy that was gonna graduate, he's gonna go play college ball as a lineman.

We opened a, a game with him on the sidelines and then brought him in as a tight end in a 40s numbered jersey and let him run a go route or what, you know, it was an out or whatever the hell he ran. It didn't matter. And then between series, I'm pretty sure we went and scored that series. In between series, he flips back to his other jersey number.

Like, have some fun. Like, it's okay to, to keep your kids engaged by having packages. Yes, we want efficiency. We want things to be the same. I love what you said about your pass or your your scheme determining, like, if you're outside zone, it's, it... From tight end to tight end, you guys that are YouTubing see my hands spread wide.

From left to right, [01:02:00] everybody's running outside zone or everybody's running inside zone. But even if you're a gap down backer guy, you wanna run gap scheme. If you're front side, you do a thing. If you're back side, you do a thing. Like, we've really simplified the O lines where I can move a guy around. Okay?

But bigger than that is I can put him in a funny numbered jersey, and I can run him out there and let him have some fun, especially if he can actually catch. At Owasso, we actually dialed up a play where our left tackle bailed into the backfield for a two-point conversion. Watching a 6'7" guy get cut down by a 5'10" outside backer was it hurt my knees watching it

But they're young, right? Like, they're, they're okay. They can do it. But you don't even have to get that fancy in, in understanding, you know, what you can and can't do within a play, as much as you can just put another jersey on him and let him go have some fun. So practice, practice, practice. Real quick, let's just touch the third part here, Joe, and then we'll move, we'll, we'll, we'll close out.

But convincing players to play a new position. In my experience, minus one kid [01:03:00] Kids are pretty open to being on the field and playing football. I've seen the most trouble with quarterbacks, but even then it's like, "Hey, I'm gonna throw you the ball from someone else and let you go run wild because you're an athlete, or hand you the ball off and let you..."

Generally you don't have an issue. You may have more issues with parents who's like, "Well, my kid's been in quarterback camp every year for 10 years." Well, you tried to make an offensive lineman a quarterback, whose fault is that really, right? Like who are we blaming here? Is that a- Right ... maybe you gotta question yourself.

But kids generally wanna play, and I always go back to my very first year in ball. We were trying to run a 4-3. We had an inside back- backer who, God bless his soul, he could not fill gap. He just, he didn't, he didn't have any go-get-it in him. He just sat there, and we were paying for it dearly, and midway through the season we switched to a 4-4.

We put both of our defensive tackles at inside linebacker and just told them, "Go get the ball," and I'm not sure that [01:04:00] another running touchdown got scored on us that year. Like, they were f- like fantastic. And we found out they were so good at just seeing the ball that it didn't matter who we really put in front of them.

So the inside backer who was scared to fit a gap, well, now he has to, that was his new job, and then whoever we just replaced as the other defensive tackle just did enough that we were able to kinda run wild. So kids will d- and don't be scared to, to go outside the norm. Joe, you started with it never goes out by size.

I don't care what he looks like put kids in a position where their skills can show up regardless of their size, and I think that you'll have way less problems moving them to a new position. I did have one kid last, this, this past year as, in my whopping six weeks as a head coach, who came to me and said, "I'm not playing if I have to play on the O line.

I have elbow and shoulder issues, and I'm tired of blocking people." I get it. He has a pretty reasonable- Solid argument, yeah ... reasonable reason. A solid argument Yeah Thank [01:05:00] you. Let's see what we can do. Understand the game's on the line and I need you in there. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put you there. Yes, I understand.

Cool. Let's work within the, that, that container, right? Like- Yeah ... I will get you somewhere else. We'll see if you can catch or take handoffs. If not, you'll just be- Okay ... a disguise, and then when I need you down there to hit a down block, we're gonna let you go crack somebody. So y- you just kinda, kinda work within what they give you sometimes.

Yeah, and I, I've run into lots and lots of different scenarios, and a big part is being able to explain. So I've, I've got a list, a four-step list here, and since we're over time, I'm just gonna kinda go through it. The number one thing is to sit that kid down. Don't just move them. Sit that kid down. Or if you do move them, and you see that, like, you- make sure if you move somebody in practice, talk to them after, as soon as you can.

And, you know, so the first thing we wanna do is explain why you think this is a [01:06:00] good fit for them. Why do you and why does the team need them to play that position? But not only that, why is it good for them? You will-- Some kids, your Swiss Army knife kid, your, your, your team-first kids, you'll say to them, you know, "Go play this position," and they'll, you know, when I, when I was playing sixth grade for Coach Cobb, Pope High School sixth grade team, we, we didn't play for our middle schools. We played for the high school Middle School Program. Coach Cobb was my coach, and Coach Cobb, we had, we had three things that we could say this, that, that was, was, was it.

There was three responses to anything a coach said in 1993 or whatever it was. It was, "Yes, sir," "No, sir," "I'll try, sir." Okay? And you've got your kids on your team who you'll be like, "Hey, 140-pound kid, I need you to be nose guard." By the way, I was a 165-pound nose guard, so don't be afraid to experiment. I was not gonna play nose guard.

I remember I remember talking to, like, [01:07:00] college... I w- I did get recruited to play college at some places that wanted my tuition, and they would be like, "What position did you play?" And I'd be like, "Nose guard." And they're like, "Man, so height and weight?" And I'm like, "5'9", let's say. It's probably five eight and a half, 165."

And they're like, "Okay. All right." I'm like, "Yeah, I don't really care." Right. But, you know, my coaches experimented because we all lost two nose guards in, in the summer. You'll have the kids that you'll say, "Go," you know, "Go down there. I need you to be a defensive." And they'll say, "I'll try, sir," or, "I'll try."

And their eyes get big and they just, they go down there and they try it. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Explain why you need it. Explain why it's good for them. Explain why it helps them. "Hey, you're not gonna start at quarterback, but if we move you to receiver you'll be one of our, you know, you can, you can start at Z receiver for us.

You'll be one of our top receivers. You'll be on the field. You know, you're not gonna play tight end, but if you move to tackle you'll be a start- You'll, you'll have a very good chance of starting." I never wanna say you'll be the starter, because they may not be, but I think that you [01:08:00] could start there if you go down and, you know, put everything into it.

But if you, if you decide to stay at tight end, you're not gonna start probably. You know, you've already been beat out there. I'm just letting you know. So the second thing is we have the conversation with them. And then make it a trial basis. Don't say, "We're moving you." Say, "Hey, man, we're gonna move you down," especially this time of year say, "Hey, man, we're gonna move you down there until the first scrimmage.

I've seen what you could do at..." You know, maybe they played a different position last year. Maybe last year they were the tight end and, you know, you need them to move to tackle because of graduation and everything, and honestly he wasn't that great at tight end and you have a, you know, we didn't feature the tight end.

Maybe we're taking the tight end out of the offense. "I need you to go down there and just, just try it. Just give me two weeks. Get through the first scrimmage. We'll look at the film. We'll talk about it then, and if, if you hate it, if you're miserable, if s- if I decide that you're not... You know, if we look at it as coaches and it's not working out, we'll, we'll go back and you can go back to fighting for the tight end job or whatever, you know?

But [01:09:00] let's, let's try this out." Always make it trial basis. Just give it a shot for me. Just give it a shot. And even do that with the kids, even do that with the kids that will do anything you ask them to do. Say, "We're trying this out," because you don't want to do the big sell and the kid's like, "All right."

He says, "I'm gonna go start at, you know, left tackle," and like he's all bought in. Like he goes and buys, you know, lineman, he get, he bu- buys knee braces and- Changes his face mask. Let's go ... yeah, gets a new face mask and, and like he's ready to go. Now if he moved from his place where he had an open face mask, that's a good idea, but always tell him it's a trial basis.

Both, both for you trying it out and seeing if you like it and, and the coaching staff trying it out and seeing if this is the right fit. We may decide to do a different fit. Like a lot of times it's like we are trying to find the right spot for you on the field because you have tools, but those tools don't fit into the mold of any of these positions, so we're trying to find which one you [01:10:00] could excel at the most.

Like you have tools, but size-wise you shouldn't be an offensive lineman but you, but you might be our best option. You know, that kind of thing. It's like we're, we, we're trying to find out. Your hands aren't really receiver hands, but you might be our best option because you can block. You know, we're trying to see what works.

Third step, make sure they understand that this is not giving up, because a lot of times your quarterback, the, the quarterback example is the best one. The guy came in, he spent all summer, he went to camps. That's the biggest problem with quarterbacks, is your backup quarterback went to camps too. He paid for, his parents paid for you know, quarterback camps and quarterback coaching and all of those things.

And you go to him and say, "Hey, listen, you're not gonna be the quarterback. Or maybe you're gonna be the backup quarterback, but I need you to play another position, but you're the backup." And a lot of times they will look at that as, "Well, if I'm playing this other position, I am the backup and I'm no longer competing."

It's like, "Brother, you're, you're not [01:11:00] competing anymore." You know, a lot of times with quarterbacks you have to explain to them, we talk about every position is up for grabs. This one's not This one's not. You've been beat. You will not beat this guy out, period. The decision's been made. Quarterback is the leader of the team.

It is not up for grabs. That whole coaching thing of, like, every position's up for grabs every Monday, that's stupid. Stop saying that. We all know better. It's not... Yeah, yeah, you're not firing that guy. Like, you're not. Stop saying that. It's stupid. Some positions are up for grabs every week, and anybody could earn that position.

Everybody has an 11th guy, but the reality is your 20th guy is not gonna become the 11th guy, but your 12th guy may, and we may have to move some things around, or your 13th guy, your 14th guy. You know, you, like you said, the 10th through 15th might all be the same kind of guy who's having a good week. But, but stop telling them every position's up for grabs.

They're not. That Mike linebacker's been a four-year starter. His position not up for grabs. That's right. Hey, he's the only person who can lose that job is him, or an injury. [01:12:00] It's not, you know, it's not anybody else is gonna take it away from him, so stop saying that. Talk to parents. At this point, this is where you bring in parents and discuss it with them, too, because remember, they're the ones who paid for quarterback camp.

A lot of times they have the dream and the vision of what this kid is going to be in college, and you need to talk to them about that. "Hey, if somebody can't see that this kid is playing defensive end for us, but he's a tailor-made college linebacker, we just don't have a spot for him right now. If they can't figure that out, you probably don't wanna play for their college.

Like, maybe you wanna find a college that has coaches who can recognize talent instead." I don't know. But talk to the parents. Bring them in. If the... A- a- and then at the end of the day, number four, at the end of the day- The position should be their decision, and a lot of people don't like this. But I will tell you, your example of I'm not gonna play off- if I'm gonna play offensive line, I'm not gonna play.

I got a shoulder problem, whatever. Now, he may just lack confidence, [01:13:00] he may just not like it, that shoulder problem may be... I don't know. But I'm gonna respect your decision. You're a person. You're a human. You're not a chess piece. This is not a video game. I don't need you to be miserable. That kid's gonna end up miserable.

Like, you, if they don't, if they decide they don't wanna do it, the position that they play is ultimately their decision. The playing time is the coach's decision. Yeah. That's what it comes down to. If you decide, if you tell me, "I am not playing offensive line, I am a tight end," and I say, "Great. You're the fourth tight end."

That's it. Not out of... And I, and by the way, I'm not gonna do that out of spite. If he's legitimately the second tight end or if he's legitimately the best tight end, would love for him to play tackle, but he says, "I wanna be a tight end." I say, "It'd be the best thing for the team if you played tackle and this kid played tight end.

That'd be the best team that we could build," and he says, "I am a [01:14:00] tight end." If he's your best tight end, play him tight end. Go to the second kid and see if he wants to be a tackle. Okay? Like, figure this thing out. Yeah, we run power and he down blocks anyways. A lot of coaches with the e- will, will have an ego about this thing and be like, "Right, they're gonna do the same thing."

A lot of coaches will have an ego. "He's not gonna tell me how he's gonna play in this field." Yeah, he should. He should a little bit. But we are in the age of NIL and transfers in high school. He is telling us. But again, playing time is your decision. Yeah. If he's... If w- w- I had a kid quarterback, could've been a really good slot receiver in our offense, but he was the backup quarterback.

He did not wanna give up on that dream. Playing time was our decision. He sat at backup quarterback He could have been a starting receiver. We would have loved him to be a starting receiver, but him, his dad, they all made the decision. That's just what it was. It's okay. We would've been better, but honestly, like, but also don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Like, we would've been better with him at receiver. We could have fought this battle all year. We ended up having a very solid backup quarterback who, when the quarterback got hurt, we could put this kid [01:15:00] in and he could run the offense. So- And, and extend your imagination. We run a two and three quarterback system sometimes where- He ran two quarterback system.

He ran a bunch of different things ... we're running, we're tossing- Yeah ... we're throwing things and they're throwing on the move. Like- Yeah ... be, be- He had a whole package ... unlimited. And that package was- Once again, don't be afraid to think outside the box ... that package was like unstoppable with this kid running the ball and it was like, "This is stupid."

Yes. He's not even that good, but it was just so different from what we were doing. But yeah, I mean, be creative with it. Work within their limita- their demands, but really it's just their... A lot of times with kids it's just their confidence level and what they believe that they are and what their, you know, their mindset and stuff.

They're not fully developed, guys. They're not. They're not. If you go to a 28-year-old adult and you explain this and they go, "I'm not doing it," they're immature. All these kids are immature and they're supposed to be because they're not fully developed All right, man, I think we've checked all the boxes for the night.

That's great. We went on to- It's too late for me to get Oreos. We gotta go fast for this close. We're pushing it. Let's go. We'll get to level ups in just a minute. So those, those first few practices of the year, man, they're gonna, they're gonna have a [01:16:00] different kinda energy. We all know that you're out there kinda knocking the rust off as coaches, as players. There's a, you know, figuring out how things are gonna go down. We got new starters this year.

We got position battles, probably not the quarterback. Freshmen kinda figure out what the hell is football. Coaches finally getting to see whether everything we planned all off-season is actually gonna work, or if it's just something else we have to scrap. Be prepared to scrap it. It's okay. Anyway, we've all got a lot to figure out over the next few weeks, so if today's conversation gave you an idea that might make that process a little easier, please do share this episode.

Maybe it is a package. Maybe it is a... We love our heavy package over here at Bristow. We love, you know, like talk two and three quarterback stuff going on. Like have fun with it. If any of this got easier for you, share the episode with another coach that's kinda getting ready for those Friday nights.

Tonight we talked about depth chart and substitutions, using ASCA to evaluate your talent, finding the best player for each position, and convincing players to play a new position. Last week's topic was talking about how to defend the wing T offense. Next week we're onto group run drill [01:17:00] periods. Level up.

Joe, what do you got, sir? Oh, I come up with something and now it's gone. How about I go and then you can think about it? Go ahead, yeah. That work? Okay. Yeah, let's do it. So, I, I got kind of two, and I'll keep them both short 'cause I know that I'm notorious for having two, but we haven't talked in a month really, so it is what it is.

This past weekend I had my 20 year high school reunion. Oof. And at my 10 year I was an idiot. I drank a lot of alcohol and and I don't remember most of the night. And so this y- this time I thought I'd better be an adult. So I drank a little bit of alcohol and and acted great. It was really, really good to see everyone.

This is one of those events that you go to and you can't help but compare and contrast how people's lives turned out versus what they were in high school. It ... Once again, great to see some of my friends and s- and they're still the ones that, like, I, I couldn't recognize 'cause I've not talked to them since we graduated.

But it was in, in a time that I'm in a weird place and, and obviously losing a job and trying [01:18:00] to figure out what's next. It was really cool to just see that we aren't doing that bad, right? The family's growing. We are successful. We've not let ourselves go physically. We're, we're in a good place.

My wife, by far the hottest girl at the party. Like, I did not miss out on anybody from high school. It was wonderful. So hopefully you guys are having that same, you know, situation when you go back to your reunions. We were only in a class of, like, 74 or 76, and about 20 of them made it. It was a good turnout.

But it really was just a lot of fun to kind of go back and see people. And the last one was football practice. I had my first day of football practice for the year yesterday. I actually missed tonight because of a, a, a pre-planned event. But I'm coaching first grade offensive line. Nice. And there is absolutely nothing like, "Coach, what are we running?"

"Well, we have one play, and that is full back dive. And out of a split back or I, it doesn't matter, we can run either, and it's gonna be full back dive, and that's our play right now." And and then going [01:19:00] in like, "Yeah, okay. Well, it's a little thin I think." And then you see the O line and you're like, "We don't know what stances are.

We don't know how to line up next to each other. We don't actually know positions. We're not sure which way the football goes or where we line up. We don't know what a snap count is. You better not use reach or cut or down block, it's just block." I'm so thankful that I've learned duo over the past two years because we are about to near ear inside zone/duo block like no one's business.

Is there someone on top of you? Block them. If not- Help somebody. Like that's, that's the rules this year. So, I text Kenny Ridley right after practice and I said, "99% of my coaching just got gutted, but I'm really excited to see what survives the year and gets back into freshman or varsity coaching at some point," right?

Like, what are we overdoing 'cause we think kids just know stuff? Which I 100% did walking into day one. I didn't [01:20:00] expect them to know what inside zone is, but I had to you know, I had to recognize that I'm gonna have to teach you how to get in a three-point stance. Obviously, I'm pres- prepared for that mentally, but- Sure

it's all, it's all just so fun watching ... These kids don't watch football, they don't play football, they don't nothing football, and we're teaching and coaching f- And by the way, the scrimmage is Saturday, so, Oh, boy ... let's see if we can get lined up five wide and possibly touch the kid across from us. Oh, boy.

D-line was way easier, though. Sic 'em. It's just sic 'em, boo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go- Absolutely tee off and go. Anyway, that's my level up. Little 20-year reunion and then first, first grade football practice I so f- I guess Friday, might have even been last Friday before I went to Boston. It's, it's been such a whirlwind, but like, I talked about it after my, I think it was my level up after my beach week, but that was scheduled and planned and [01:21:00] then we just had a mess with the travel and everything, and because I'm driving and, and exhausted and I, I did nothing.

I mean, literally, you know, might have answered a text or something or, you know, a message or something. But I am through, with the help of you know, a while back we hired a fractional integrator last year. And she's been helping a lot with, you know, organization, but organization of me, and in a way just like a lot of encouraging of the rest of the JDFB team to...

Excuse me

If you're on YouTube, you saw that Yep 'Cause- There we go. Whoo. I felt it coming. I was like, "I can get through this." Encouraging me and encouraging the, the, the rest of the JDFB team to, you know, take more responsibility, do more things, encouraging me to do more delegating, and I just... I've been [01:22:00] doing more delegating.

I delegated a couple of things that a lot of times I spend too much time working on things I shouldn't, and I just have been, you know... A couple things were delegated before I went away on vacation, or not even on vacation before. I mean, it was a vacation, but it was just supposed to be the weekend.

But not only to come back and everything's taken care of, but like delegating these things and they just, they are getting done at a high level, and being able to not do everything myself and starting to trust other people to do things, and that's a really hard thing for business owners and for football coaches.

'Cause I know as a football coach it's like, "I'll just make the practice plans. I'll tag the film. I'll build the call sheet. I'll cut up the wristbands. I'll d-" And you end up hating coaching football, right? Because all you're doing is arts and crafts, and tagging film, and like that's not the fun part. Arts and crafts.

Arts and... I used to call it arts and crafts day, 'cause I'd be [01:23:00] cutting, cutting and laminating wristbands all day and stuff. And there's also an element of like I'm the one who decided to do the wristbands, so I'm the one who should be suffering through doing all this, because I'm the one who wants to do it.

But you know, like delegating the m- delegating more, accepting that it's not exactly the way that you wanted it to be, but then looking at the finished product and going, "Yeah, that's... I can see in a way that's better." Like, it's just a different approach. So it's a level up for me to let go of some things and just say, "Hey, can you..."

I learned the phrase that I, I thought this was such a goofy phrase that my integrator used to bring up, and a fractional integrator is essentially like a s- a COO, fractional COO. "How can we support you?" She said, "How can we support you with this?" I'm like, "I don't want your support. I just wanna do it.

I'm just gonna go do it." And then finally, after a year of hearing this over and over again, of going to someone else on my team and [01:24:00] saying, "I need your support putting this together." And like, it's a weird term, but like, they, like people will take it and run with it, and they will do it goodly. Absolutely.

So give your people more stuff to do, your staff, your JV coaches, your whoever, your players, everybody With less instruction too, by the way, 'cause that's what I used to do is be like, "Here's exactly how I want it done." Now it's like I'm learning, learning I'm not perfect. "Here's the guidelines." "Here's what I want it to look like-ish."

Ish, yeah. Give them a finish line. Yep. I like it. All right, man, let's pay the bills and get out of here. Yeah, I mentioned the Coach's Edge workshop is coming up in August on building these depth charts. If you wanna get with us and build your depth charts, you'll be able to ask questions about, "Hey, you know, where do I plug this guy in?

How do I make this adjustment?" We'll have templates, we'll have all the things that you need. That's gonna be on August 10th will be the Coach's Edge workshop. Of course, is, you can join anytime before the end of [01:25:00] August and you'll get access to that. You'll get access to all of them right now. The June Coach's Edge, putting together your install schedule, the July Coach's Edge, putting your practice planning together pr- install practice plans together and building out the s- the shell for your practice plans.

You know, how to build a practice plan really. It's your install, but it's the thought process behind all of it as well that you'll use all season long, and then we'll put together the depth chart and the, the thought process behind where do you plug all these guys in to get the most out of your offense or defense.

System agnostic, doesn't matter what you run, we'll be able to help you there. And again, all JDFB premium coaching systems get access to the Coach's Edge. But if you don't need a system right now, if you don't think you need a system, you don't need a playbook, you just wanna get into those workshops, like I said, you will get access to module one of all the systems so you can check out what those look like.

But Coach's Edge is $19 a month right now, and you can go to JoeDanielfootball.com/edge and you'll get access to the workshops as well with that. And again, coming up on August 10th, it'll be 7:30 PM and then we'll roll straight into our 9:00 PM Chalk Talk Q&A, Eastern [01:26:00] Time. Love it. I'm excited to jump into that as well.

What sales are opening and closing, Joe? What do we got coming up? None. Moving on. Nothing? None. None. None. Get in and buy the regular stuff. Yeah, get in the, get in the membership, get the 425 manual, JoeDanielfootball, 425defense.com if you want the manual. Yeah, that's what's there. Awesome. Social media, I am @CoachChamboOK on Twitter/X.

You can find me at chamberlainfootballconsulting@gmail.com if you have questions. Love to see the chalkboard spill over into email. Joe and I had a- Yeah ... a conver- He sent up the spotlight the Chambo, Coach Chambo light or something. I can't remember what you called it, but it was fun. Lots of emails about the two platoon style with one platoon size- team.

And I've already talked to multiple coaches about it. Prob- we're probably five deep now, guys that have reached out. There is a Loom floating around, so if you can get it, get it. If not, I'll send you a copy. Anyway, email us, guys. We'd love to talk football. Joe joe@joedanielfootball.com is [01:27:00] the email.

Nailed it. That's the best place to contact Joe. Or the chalkboard if you're a- Chalkboard would be the best place, yeah ... Chalk Talk member. Or our Chalk Talk Q&A calls that'll be every Monday night through the end of the fall. Well, at least into November. Usually they- There we go ... start to fall off. If this is your first time listening to Football Coaching Podcast, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.

You can find us on your favorite podcatcher, especially Spotify and Apple Podcast. If you've been listening for a while, please do leave us a review wherever you listen. We want to sh- be shared out to as many people as possible in your realm. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Football Coaching Podcast.

And remember, coach simple, play fast, win.